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Process of copying the Old Testament by Jewish Scribes 5*info not helpful at all

26 June 2022 by Red Johnson

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Historian on the Warpath
Dead Sea Scrolls
Ancient 

Process of copying the Old Testament by Jewish Scribes

 March 17, 2007 Scott Manning

In 586 B.C., Jerusalem was captured by the Babylonians. The Temple was looted and then destroyed by fire. The Jews were exiled.

About 70 years later, the Jewish captives returned to Jerusalem from Babylon. According to the Bible, Ezra recovered a copy of the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) and read it aloud to the whole nation.

From then on, the Jewish scribes solidified the following process for creating copies of the Torah and eventually other books in the Old Testament.

  1. They could only use clean animal skins, both to write on, and even to bind manuscripts.
  2. Each column of writing could have no less than forty-eight, and no more than sixty lines.
  3. The ink must be black, and of a special recipe.
  4. They must verbalize each word aloud while they were writing.
  5. They must wipe the pen and wash their entire bodies before writing the word “Jehovah,” every time they wrote it.
  6. There must be a review within thirty days, and if as many as three pages required corrections, the entire manuscript had to be redone.
  7. The letters, words, and paragraphs had to be counted, and the document became invalid if two letters touched each other. The middle paragraph, word and letter must correspond to those of the original document.
  8. The documents could be stored only in sacred places (synagogues, etc).
  9. As no document containing God’s Word could be destroyed, they were stored, or buried, in a genizah – a Hebrew term meaning “hiding place.” These were usually kept in a synagogue or sometimes in a Jewish cemetery.

The final item is why we have no original manuscripts of the Old Testament today.

After Jerusalem was sacked by Rome in the First Century, the process was lost. While a Hebrew version of the Old Testament continued to exist, the language wasn’t spoken by many. Greek and eventually Latin versions continued to be copied.

How Accurate Were the Scribes?

Beginning in the Sixth Century and into the Tenth Century A.D., some European Jewish scribes continued a similar method for copying manuscripts of the Old Testament in the original Hebrew language as originated by the scribes before Christ.

Until 1948, the oldest manuscripts of the Old Testament dated back to 895 A.D. In 1947, a shepard boy discovered some scrolls inside a cave West of the Dead Sea. These manuscripts dated between 100 B.C. and 100 A.D. Over the next decade, more scrolls were found in caves and the discovery became known as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Every book in the Old Testament was represented in this discovery except Esther. Numerous copies of each book was discovered (For example, 25 copies of Deuteronomy).

While there are other items found among the Dead Sea Scrolls not currently in the Old Testament, the OT items that were found have few discrepancies to the versions from the Tenth Century. While not perfect, this is our best measuring stick to how accurate the Jewish scribes were throughout the centuries.

Further Reading

The Indestructible Book: The Bible, Its Translators, and their Sacrifices (1996) by W. Kenneth Connolly, who also has a documentary available on DVD on the same topic.

The Complete Guide to Bible Versions (1991) by Philip Wesley Comfort

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69 thoughts on “Process of copying the Old Testament by Jewish Scribes”

  • Dr Roger Vella Bonavita
    June 6, 2016 at 6:29 AM
    I had no idea that the scriptures of the old testament had come down to us in reasonably accurate copies.Reply
    • JCLincoln
      July 20, 2016 at 7:42 PM
      ‘reasonably’ is a gross understatement.Reply
      • Dr Roger Vella Bonavita
        July 20, 2016 at 8:29 PM
        I meant no offence to the copyists. It all depends what one considers to be ‘reasonable’. I have worked with copies of manuscripts for which the originals surviveReply
        • JCLincoln
          July 21, 2016 at 3:10 AM
          And how many differences did you find between the originals and the manuscripts we have today?Reply
          • Dr Roger Vella Bonavita
            July 21, 2016 at 7:44 PM
            TYhere are always mistakes scribes are human. Modern transcriptions tend to have more mistakes than earlier copies though. Of course in the case of holy books scribes would have ghad to bevery careful…
          • shabroimpex
            January 12, 2017 at 10:31 AM
            Not only scribes mistaken in old time but today missionaries who adding in it to compete each-other in making money by making new and new versions with claiming that our version is most accurate- see below verse and from which original Greek bible translated? (We know the rule of translation; not to add, not subtract any word/s, neither change nor translate the name)
            John 8:58, Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (KJV)
            John 8:58, “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” (NIV) (was before or born before?)
            John 8:58, Yeshua said to them: “Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD.” (Aramaic Bible in Plain English) (Jesus or Yeshua? Complete the sentence on I AM or goes till The Living God?)
            How many examples of such verses I give?
            It is not from any original scripture, not translation, not available God’s words in original inspiration but man made explanation as their wish.
          • Dr Roger Vella Bonavita
            January 12, 2017 at 6:00 PM
            This discussion started with comments on the accuracy of transcriptions of the bible. The accuracy or otherwise of translations is a quite different issue.
          • shabroimpex
            January 12, 2017 at 7:11 PM
            Transcription is related with translation but if you like to close further discussion on translation so thanks for correspondence so long.
          • Dr Roger Vella Bonavita
            January 12, 2017 at 7:39 PM
            I have transcribed and translated many many C16th manuscripts. A transcriber has to adopt a set of rules and his or her transcription is judged on whether these are really appropriate to the original text. Literal translations are boring and often incomprehensible. The best translators attempt to give the reader an insight into the mind of the original author and what he (or she) was trying to say. This makes things very difficult for the translator of course and there is the ever present danger of misinterpretation and error. In the case of the Bible/New Testament where religious belief comes into play. The ‘authenticity’ of the translation is a huge problem. Establishing the accuracy of the original text is yet another issue. All that said I do not regard myself as an expert in transcription or translation.
          • shabroimpex
            January 13, 2017 at 9:33 PM
            There are three types of inspiration: (1) Prophet is a chosen man by God from mankind listening God’s voice in dream (2) God talking with prophet from behind veil and (3) Angel comes to prophet with God’s message and recite word to word. In biblical language prophet and angel both called Holy Spirit.
            All scripture is given by inspiration of God, (2 Timothy 3:16)
            …no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (Peter 2:20-21)
            Angels and Prophets of God are righteous with sharp memory mind and heart. What they speak not their own but words of God.
            For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. (John 12:49)
            Find out this transcription copies then we talk on this matter, and I am sure nobody will find out because it is lost by enemies of Christ and Christianity, therefore first four books of Gospel became “according to”.
            Who was blind from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John that could not read the writing?
            And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS. (Matt.27:37)
            And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. (Mark 15:26)
            And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS. (Luke 23:38)
            And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. (John 19:19)
          • Dave
            January 2, 2018 at 3:27 PM
            … holy spirits, not The Holy Spirit. Jesus said THE Comforter, ONE singular…by the Holy Ghost, not Holy Ghosts! Keep it straight.
          • shabroimpex
            January 4, 2018 at 10:19 PM
            My topic is not about The Holy Spirit or THE Comforters but intentionally you misguide to readers and avoid to discuss on truth-
            When the Bible itself says: “How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.” (Jeremiah 8:8), then why you not believe that many things added lies in the bible?
            1. THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS. (Matt.27:37)
            2. THE KING OF THE JEWS. (Mark 15:26)
            3. THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS. (Luke 23:38)
            4. JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. (John 19:19)
            From accusation what correct words were written on the cross? Above are not inspiration words but written words on cross and surprisingly those all are different!
            All Churches claims that our translation is accurate and translated from original Greek Bible. You are scholar and intelligent pastor/preacher of the bible, see below verse and tell us which translation is accurate and from which original Greek bible translated?
            a. whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen. (Rom.9:5 NASB)
            b. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. (Rom. 9:5 NIV)
            c. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. (Rom.9:5 NLT)
          • shabroimpex
            January 12, 2017 at 11:39 AM
            There were more than 24000 manuscripts but today not a single original manuscript in origin form. All are broken and mixed with man made verses. One version not match with another, adding and subtracting is common, change name as well translating name also common. There is no fear of God in changing His words. In Mark 16 NWT 1984 has 20 verses but made other print copy in 2013 and thrown out last 12 verses from that chapter. RSV 1 John 5:7, And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth. NRSV 1 John 5:7, There are three that testify: In which version and verse will you believe? Is this translation from any original?
    • shabroimpex
      January 11, 2017 at 9:08 PM
      “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (Jeremiah 8:8 ESV)
      scribes means a person who copies out documents,
      It is not new thing, bible has been changed from beginning.Reply
      • Dr Roger Vella Bonavita
        January 12, 2017 at 8:21 AM
        Jeremiah was being unfair to the scribes here I think!Reply
        • shabroimpex
          December 24, 2017 at 4:34 PM
          Sir, your thinking is nothing in God’s revealed book. If Jeremiah was unfair, is there any before or after this verse to prove he was unfair? Is this book Jeremiah’s words or God’s? Correct your belief.Reply
        • D. Milo Covey
          February 19, 2019 at 9:11 PM
          I don’t have all of the fancy credentials, but I can read. With that tiny little skill, reading, you seem to be contradicting the earlier statement. So which is it? Is the text in the bible writen by glorified secretaries, transcribing the words of an omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient being, or are they just men, with fancy titles, writing a story in their own words?
          While I do believe there is a Creator, for you can not have clock without a clock-maker. I can not put my trust in the ‘God’ depicted in the bible. That would be a ‘God’ that, not only, had huge populations of people slaughtered, including infants, but a ‘God’ that condemns his children to eternal torment, with zero chance of a second redemption, for simply stealing a candy bar, even if it was stolen to feed a starving child! That sounds more like a tyranical dictator.
          I do think there is a sliver of truth in the bible, but I fear that those slivers have been supplied, by the writers, to convince the masses that the other 75% is also true. The same can be said for other Greek stories. Does that also mean that Zues, and other mythological beings actually existed, because a sprinkle of historical proof is there? Hardly!
          I like to think of our Creator as a Father figure, and I was fortunate enough to have great parents. I can assure you that neither of my parents gave me the rules and information, that I needed to survive everyday dangers, in confusing riddles. They didn’t teach me how to cross a busy street with a complicated parable. Now is when people like to argue, “that’s how people talked back then”, but wouldn’t they have still understood a simpler explanation, as opposed to the era correct riddles? After all, and I hate to repeat myself, but, would an omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient Creator give us information that every person, throughout time, would understand, CLEARLY?
          As I said before, I believe in a Creator. A Creator Who is 100% benevolent, and 0% manevolent. A Creator Who doesn’t kill, have others kill for Him, or punish people, for eternity, with zero chance of redemption.Reply
          • Paul
            July 25, 2019 at 3:03 PM
            Hi, I pick up on your sincere and honest thinking. Firstly, how can you say your parents were great had they not loved and protected you? Unfortunately it is not true even of yourself. Should you have an intruder enter your home and begin to rape and kill your family, it would be reasonable to imagine you would seek justice. The God of Israel had a purpose of a lineage from Adam through which a deliverer would come, and his protection of this nation was critical. It has been said “don’t trouble trouble or trouble will trouble you”. Those who had a desire to kill and destroy, were responded to in order to preserve the Nation of Israel. At no time at all was there any desire on Gods part to just kill, in the same way that you seek a creator who does not kill. But the moment you stand by and watch your family being horrifically hacked to pieces by an intruder and you stand by and don’t react you would be guilty of not preserving life, or loving the innocent and your inaction would be tantamount to participating in the murder of your family. (In South Africa as a crime ridden country this is a reality often – check it out). Should you ever be faced with this, would you be satisfied with a justice system that had no consequence to limit the perpetrator? And as for the eternity with zero chance of redemption from hell, it is a choice to reject the offer of redemption in arrogance or ignorance that God makes and has made since the beginning. God has never sent one person to eternal punishment. In fact, he created a place of judgement for Satan and his rebellious spirits to limit his influence and destruction of humanity. Anyone who may be punished for eternity has to first reject and “vote” against the offer of redemption.
            We are often not aware of the way God works and even His desire to spare us from his justice that requires judgement of wrong, just as you would protest for justice against a criminal who destroyed you or your family. The good news is that your anger at the creator is a sign of your dissatisfaction of what you perceive as injustice. You have to have a desire for righteousness to despise corruption. By implication, you are seeking exactly what God seeks – peace and goodness – and you no doubt enjoy a high level of this because your country has a justice system that serves you, at the expense of perpetrators being denied freedom by imprisonment! That is not 100% benevolent and 0% malevolent, even if it is an ideological desire. And in order to attain that, you would have to depart from your own statement regarding it. You may be very much more surprised at the protective nature of God and his continual invitation to reason through these things. What you are implying is that you despise the rule of law and justice, whilst no doubt living in a country governed by the very principles the true creator is striving for.
          • lesley
            June 20, 2020 at 4:34 PM
            wonderful words I feel I can intuitively connect . . thank you
        • Virginia freeman
          January 1, 2021 at 11:29 PM
          Jesus said, I will send you “another”comforter. God has the Holy Spirit whom He sends in Jesus name Jesus is the Comforter which is the the Holy Ghost and third member of the trinity. God said at the end of the Bible—-not one word, the crossing of the “T” or a dotting of an I was to be changed. But man ,in his ability to write several bibles, has wrote things in the new bibles that God got wrong. How smart we are. Just throw out what you don’t Ike. Shame. I will never say the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost are the same. Did God get it wrong? People are trying to write a Bible that lets you do everything men want to do. May God have pity on the people of this world.Reply
      • jay
        January 14, 2018 at 1:30 AM
        The fact that some people tried to spread lies and propaganda doesn’t mean that it’s impossible to know the truth. The Bible has not “been changing from [the] beginning”. There have been people trying to change it. There are people trying to change it today. But we have very good historical, archaeological, and scholarly evidence that they ultimately failed.Reply
        • shabroimpex
          January 15, 2018 at 10:09 PM
          “The fact that some people tried to spread lies and propaganda”
          From common people nobody tried to spread lies and propaganda except missioners and churches. In all versions below verses are almost similar.
          (2 kings 24:8) “Jehoiachin was EIGHTEEN (οκτω καί δεκα Eight and Ten) years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem THREE MONTHS.(τρίμηνον Quarterly)” when 2 Ch.36:9 says “Jehoiachin was EIGHT (ὀκτώ Eight) years old when he began to reign, and he reigned THREE MONTHS AND TEN DAYS (τρίμηνον και δέκα ημέρας Three months and Ten days) in Jerusalem”. I give you one more example: (2 Kings 8:26), “TWO AND TWENTY (είκοσι και δύο Twenty and Two) years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign;” (2 Ch.22:2) “FORTY AND TWO (τεσσαράκοντα και δύο Forty and Two) years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign;” There is no any historical, archaeological and scholarly evidence. By disobeying God’s words of Jeremiah 8:8 and argue whatever you like to hide the truth but it is true that the Bible have been many mistakes from beginning (Greek Bible).Reply
          • jay
            January 15, 2018 at 11:28 PM
            It is unlikely that these discrepancies existed “from the beginning”. They are most likely copying errors. Especially the difference between 8 and 18. In Hebrew the symbol for 10 is a tiny mark resembling an English apostrophe. It would be easy to skip over when copying, or easy to think that a stray mark on a page was intended to be a yod.
          • shabroimpex
            January 18, 2018 at 10:12 PM
            In Hebrew and Greek bible figures are written in alphabetical letters, not in numerical. Numerical figure ten in Hebrew is ١٠ zero like a tiny mark but it is for you, not foe scholars of that language. In Hebrew and Greek Bible eight written in alphabets not numerical 8. You have original scriptures, if copy makers made mistake so you can correct it and make accurate bible without any errors.
        • Jerry
          September 24, 2019 at 1:08 AM
          I’m sorry to tell you that when the oldest copy of the Bible in the world is compared with a modern Bible, they find words in the original that do not appear in the modern version and things written into today’s version that were never in the oldest Bible.Reply
        • lesley
          June 20, 2020 at 4:44 PM
          there will always be, and have always been ‘the reputable and the non reputable’, this is how it will always be, people are transient, nature works one with one, has lived longer then man, and doesn’t need the written word to live by, the instruments to fly, the weapons to fight, the books to read . . . this is why human beings will always suffer . . . Gods will!! . . . until we open our eyes, and work as one, as nature does.Reply
      • Essevay
        August 19, 2019 at 12:31 AM
        From what I can see you are a follower of something different than Christianity, let’s say Islam, right sir? You were talking about ther fear of God before, did Caliph Uthman fear God when he had 6 of the 7 existing versions of his time of the Qu’ran burnt? Why, because Muslims were starting to fight each other over interpretation of what each copy was saying. They were in 7 different regional dialects of Arabic of the time. Muslim soldier fighting Muslim soldier over this. May I remind you that Muhammad himself had approved of all 7 versions! But men are men, as you know, and the men from different tribes started claiming that their respective versions were the most precise ones compared to all the others… Caliph Uthman was a smart man, he saw what was happening, so to solve the problem, he had 6 of the 7 existing versions of the time burned. (I must remind you here that God fearing Jews had a tradition of not burning documents with God’s name in them, if they felt that they had made any mistake whatsoever, even an extra stroke of a pen, they hid the documents somewhere that they thought was safe, but they never burned them.)Christianity has taken a long look at itself through the lenses of biblical criticism and historical analysis of it’s tradition. The Bible has been analysed with more rigor of proceedure than any other book of Antiquity or of any time whatsoever, by believers and non-believers alike. Christianity has offered the world translations of the Bible in almost every known language. You can even find footnotes in most modern Bibles that tell you where the Septuagint and the Mazoretic text differ. And tell you what, the vast majority of the time, the 2 texts are in agreement, and when they do differ, the details are so minor that they can’t even have any effect on central Christian doctrine. We have had scholars working on these issues for centuries. Modern translations tell you also which version they find more accurate and therefore what they used and give you even what the other version says so that you can compare. I have read the KJV completely in English and the TOB Oecumenical version in French completely. I am fluent in French and in English. And both Bibles present clearly to you the message of salvation through Jesus Christ. (I have also read big parts of the School of Jerusalem Catholic Bible in French, same message is clearly brought forth…)The KJV English language Bible was fully translated and authorized by the year 1611 A.D.
        (You surely already knew this…) The copy I have was from a contract given to a printing company in Scotland by Her Majesty The Queen Victoria in 1837 to print 100 000 copies a year, my copy was printed in 1956.

        The School of Jerusalem Catholic French language Bible that I have was copyrighted as being an up to date translation in the French language in 1954 A.D.

        The TOB Oecumenical French language version that I have is documented and copyrighted as having the Old Testament translation completed in 1972 and the New Testament translation completed in 1975 A.D.

        To bring the discussion even further with you my dear sir, the TOB Oecumenical French language Bible was a rigorous work of translation carried out by Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox scholars. This to eliminate what you call competition between different missionaries. Also, the Septuagint and the Mazoretic texts were both used for the translation of the Old Testament. They used both of them as comparative grids to one another. This was a thorough work of translation so that the Francophone reader could fully access what we believe as Christians to be The Word Of God. The same line of thinking and rigor were applied to the translation of the New Testament. Every text in the original Coine Greek that was available was used for it’s translation. The important point here again is that the Francophone reader could have full access to what we believe as Christians to be The Word Of God, that the reader can clearly read this Word in his or her native language (in this case the French language), this Word that points directly to salvation through Jesus Christ that it fully explains and expresses and provides knowledge of so that the reader may comprehend it in his or her native tongue.

        And this sir, has been done in practically every spoken language that has an alphabet on this Earth.

        As I told you earlier, I have 2 native tongues, French and English and I am fully fluent in both.
        I learned Spanish as a 3rd language when I was 21 years of age back in 1988.
        I learned Latin for 2 years in a Catholic Collegial High School from 1979 to 1981.
        I studied Primar Biblical Hebrew from the years 2000 to 2003.
        I studied Coine Greek for a few months but had to stop because of a busy work schedule…
        I can also read quite a bit of Italian and Portuguese.

        So, my point is here, yes, I can get around in languages.

        So when people try to pass me a fast one on translations, I can pick it up pretty fast.
        I can even hear Romanian pretty well.

        And yes, I have looked at Arabic and have started to learn it since 2010 when I can find the time to do so.

        I am not telling you this to boast as an individual, but for you to understand that many of us who call ourselves Christians are educated and are fluent in two, three, four or more languages. Then you can read the Bible in many different languages and see that the message in it is the same in every language that you can comprehend…

        Now, my major point here is that according to Islam, you absolutely must read the Qu’ran in Arabic to have the precise Word Of God. Now, I read the Qu’ran in French where it was entitled: ”Le sens du Saint Koran et de ses versets dans la langue Française” which translates in English as: ”The meaning of the Holy Qu’ran and of it’s verses in the French language”. An Arab Muslim friend of mine provided the copy for me. I read it completely in 9 months time.

        So, to keep moving forward in my major point here, as Christians, we believe that we are reading the Word Of God in the Holy Bible in whatever language we are reading it in.

        Muslims though, insist that you must read The Holy Qu’ran in Arabic to get the full meaning and even to consider that you are actually reading The Word Of God.

        Some Non-Arabic Muslims have admitted to me that when they are reciting the Qu’ran in Arabic, they have NO IDEA of what the words they are pronouncing actually mean!!! (Those who are fortunate enough to have had teachers explain it to them in their native tongue are the exception, but many of whom I have spoken to rely on trusting Imams on the general interpretation of Islam and don’t have a verse by verse comprehension of the book that they consider holy. I have even spoken to some Non-Arabic Muslims who have turned away from Islam because of this.

        Also, you don’t seem to have any sense of critical examination of the Qu’ran or of the Tradition that you call (Sunna).
        To be fair, I know that some schools of thought have conducted critical examinations of some Hadiths in the past, but right now, it is the most conservative of the 4 schools of thought in Islam that is prevailing, fully funded by Saudi Arabia.
        You can’t deny this.
        The very very very vast majority of critical work being done is done by outsiders such as Orientalists from European universities who, by the way have PhDs and are very specialized in Arabic language and Qu’ranic studies.

        Please take a look at your religious history, challenge your tradition at least if it worries you too much to challenge the Qu’ran itself in the lense of a critical study. Please look at the cover-ups such as what Uthman did, and there are others too. Please digg and find.

        Because, I and many other Christians have done the exercise on our side.

        The very fact that you could participate in a Forum like this about the Bible scribes indicates to you that many of us as Christians examine these things, and as additionnal proof, it is by looking at this that I have found you!

        But you come in and and do what I call ”Bible-bashing” and I recognized Islamic rhetoric right away while reading you.

        So, what I will ask you to do is to honestly look at what you have been taught, to analyse it carefully and to weigh it in the balance of reason and logic. Because, yes, faith, reason and logic do go hand in hand. So, please take a critical look at your religion before criticizing ours!

        Thank you and no hard feelings!

        I hope that all is well with you!

        P.S: This is a long communication, it is late and I haven’t the time to revise it completely before sending it, so please forgive me if there are any typing errors…

        Reply

    • shabroimpex
      December 24, 2017 at 5:17 PM
      Whatever God’s revealed are accurate and reasonable. But we the people disobey his message and lost origin our own. God said: “This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.” (Joshua 1:8), How many Jews and Christians memorized the bible? So the original bible lost and scribes added their own verses with lies. Thus the bible became corrupted, listen professor Bart “Ehrman on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgnqkNOcbo8” how bible became corrupted.Reply
      • Dr Roger Vella Bonavita
        December 24, 2017 at 6:52 PM
        What Erhman says is very reasonable: Humanum est errare. Merry Christmas.Reply
      • jay
        January 14, 2018 at 1:27 AM
        Mr Erhman greatly exaggerates the problem. We can be confidant that the manuscripts we have are very close to the original text because we have thousands of copies from ancient times and they are all 99+% the same, plus we have many quotes in books and letters by early Christians that also match our current manuscripts. Most of the differences are trivial, things like spelling and grammar changes. The handful of actual textual differences are not particularly earth-shattering. For example, in all manuscripts we have, Mark 9:44 says describes Hell as a place “where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”. In some manuscripts, this sentence is repeated in Mark 9:46. Other manuscripts do not have verse 46, and so we are left not knowing if Jesus said this twice or only once. Or, in Luke 1 an angel appears to Mary, and then in verse 29 we read, “And when she saw him, she was greatly troubled”, etc. Some manuscripts do not include “and when she saw him”. Without these words, it’s still clear from the context that she was disturbed at the appearance of an angel. The only difference that is more than a few words or a sentence is that a few important manuscripts do not include Mark 16:9-20, but end the chapter at verse 8. This has little effect on any Christian teaching because essentially the same information can be found in Matthew 28 and Luke 24.Many Bibles today include footnotes showing all questionable readings of the text. You don’t have to be a Greek scholar: the work’s been done for you. Go through all those issues and let us know any you find that call any Christian teaching into question. I have yet to find one.Reply

        • John
          July 30, 2021 at 3:17 PM
          This hits on the problems of translations and spurious additions.First, let’s look at Mark 9:44 and 9:46.The problem with using these scripture, and frankly just trusting footnotes in a particular Bible translation or relying on just one translation, is that later copies of the scriptures show spurious additions.

          The earliest codices that has Mark 9:44 and 9:46 in it are the codex A and D from the fifth century.

          The earliest copies of Mark’s passage are from the early 4th century: Codex B and Codex Sinaniticus do not have these “scriptures”. These “scriputres” were also missing from the late 4th early fifth century Codex W. Most Syriac translations contain these “scriptures”, but interestingly, the oldest, the 4th century Sinaitic Palimpsest, does not contain Mark 9:44 or 9:46.

          Now the translation problem. This is just one example, but it is a big one.

          The word Hell in the Bible. That word is probably the most abused in the various translations. There are four different words in the Bible the Hell is commonly used: Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus–the first being Hebrew and the last three being Greek.

          Let’s start with the easy one: Tartarus. One place that the word Tartarus appears is in 2 Peter 2:4. Using the KJV, simply replace the word hell with Tartarus, and the scripture defines the word for you. “For if God spare not the angels that sinned, but cat them down to Tartarus (hell is used in the KJV), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

          So Tartarus is the condition that sinning angels (commonly known as demons), where placed in after they sinned. Read Genesis chapters 5 and 6 to see how and where this happened.

          Now lets take a look at Sheol (or she’ohl’ if you want to be picky) and Hades.

          Let’s take the easy part first. We know that these words mean the same thing. If you look at Isaiah 7:11 in the Douay translation, it states: “Ask thee a sign of the Lord thy God either unto the depth of hell, or unto the height above.” In the original Hebrew text, the word translated as hell was Sheol. Ancient Greek translations such as the ones by Aquila and Symmachus translated this word to Hades in Greek. There are other examples such as when Jesus quoted the Hebrew Scriptures, Hades was used when the Hebrew said Sheol.

          Now, what do Hades and Sheol actually mean? Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, vol 12 pp 28) states: “Since Sheol in the Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the world ‘hell’, as understood today, is not a happy translation.” Also the Encyclopaedia Britannica (1971, Vol 11 pp 276) says: “Sheol was located somewhere ‘under’ the earth . . . The state of the dad was one of neither pain nor pleasure. Neither reward for the righteous no punishment for the wicked was associated with Sheol. The good and the bad alike, tyrants and saints, kings and orphans, Israelites and Gentiles–all slept together with out awareness of one another.”

          Now the scriptures confirm both encyclopedias’ comments. Using the Douay (since I still have it open), Ecclesiastes chapter 9:10 states, “Whatsoever thy hand is able to do, do it earnestly: for neither work, nor reason, nor wisdom, nor knowledge shall be in hell (Hbr. Sheol), whither thou art hastening.” So, there is no work, reason, wisdom or knowlege in Sheol, which agrees with the above definitions.

          Also, verse 2 and 3 show that all go to Sheol. (2) But all things are kept uncertain for the time to come, because all things equally happen to the just and to the wicked, to the good and to the evil, to the clean and to the unclean, to him that offereth victims, and to him that despiseth sacrifices. As the good is, so also is the sinner: as the perjured, so he also that sweareth truth. (3) This is a very great evil among all things that are done under the sun, that the same things happen to all men: whereby also the hearts of the children of men are filled with evil, and with contempt while they live, and afterwards they shall be brought down to hell.

          So, Sheol essentially means the common grave of all mankind. Not a place of eternal torture.

          Now the last word translated as Hell–Gehenna.

          Now to be fair, let’s go back to the KJV and quote a scripture. Matthew 10: 28 states: “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” In the original Greek the word translated as hell is actually the Greek word Gehenna.

          Gehenna was an actual place. It was the garbage dump of 1st century Jerusalem. No live people or animals were ever placed in Gehenna. Criminals and dead animals bodies where placed into the dump. Sulphur and brimstone were added to keep this outdoor refuse incinerator going.

          Anything that went into Gehenna would never come out again, since it would be thoroughly destroyed. But it is also not a place of eternal torment, since anything that went in was destroyed and simple doesn’t exist anymore. Since whatever is placed in Gehenna was totally destroyed, it could not be in a state of eternal torment.

          So, we have three different translations for four words translated as hell in different translations. And none of these words match the common concept or the dictionary definition of hell.

          So you must be very careful. Spurious scriptures and mistranslations of even something as basic as the word hell can send you down a path of false conclusions.

          So, where did the concept of a place of eternal torture and fiery torment first come to being? All the ancient religions of Mesopotamia (except Judaism and the worship of Jehovah before the Jewish law) had some place of eternal torture, but it seems that the origin of this concept was from the Babylonians and possibly the Assyrians. The Babylonian epic Gilgamesh discusses it in the “journey of Ishtar in Hades”.

          So, the modern concept of hell is actually from the Babylonians, and the one Hebrew and three Greek words commonly translated as “hell” don’t even have the same meaning.

          It is true that most translations of the Bible are in 95-99 agreement (that level of accuracy over the millennia is definite proof of divine origin), but some key concepts have been distorted by errors such as above. That is why you have to be careful of many footnotes in translations. Those ideas have to be checked carefully–especially the ones that seem obvious. They can be based on translation issues or scriptures that were added after the fact.

          Reply

          • Jerry M
            January 9, 2022 at 2:17 PM
            Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into EVERLASTING punishment: but the righteous into life ETERNAL.
            Mark 3:29 but is in danger of ETERNAL damnation.The word; “eternal” is a descriptive word of God, Spirit, life, salvation, glory, judgment, inheritance, and God’s power.
            eternal: GREEK – AION, AIONIOS, & AIDIOS
            AION is in reference to an ‘age.’ Ephesians 3:11 the purpose of the ages. It is where we get our word: eon.
            AIONIOS is in reference to something that never ends
            AIDIOS is also used for the English word, EVERLASTING. It is used chiefly where something is spoken of that excludes interruption and lays stress upon permanence, and unchangeableness of conditions. But is there a place of eternal torment?
            Our problem is our understanding of death. Death appears to be the end of life. However, it is quiet the opposite. Could death simply be an interruption of our physical life that gives way to spiritual life? The main GREEK word for death as a noun is THANATOS. It is used to describe the separation of the spirit from the soul & body. THANATOS is the opposite of life, and this word never refers to non-existence. As spiritual life is conscious existence in communion with God, so spiritual death is conscious existence being separated from God.
            It is true the body appears to be destroyed when it is burned because it is susceptible to the element of fire. Yet, the body is to be resurrected in the end regardless of its condition, or the way the person has lived. Jesus taught there would be two resurrections!
            John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.The resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation are two future events that will reunite the body to the soul. For those who have been born TWICE, they will die ONCE. For those who have been born ONCE, they shall die TWICE!
            Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

            Death is not the end of existence. Otherwise, why cast something that does not exist into the lake of fire? Death is a lower form of existence. For those who choose to reject God’s sacrifice for sin, they must answer for their choice. This places them in a position which they will experience the second death. The second death is the separation of the soul & body from God. Did God make man a living soul to live eternally? YES! But, if man rejects God’s provision the wages of sin come upon the soul that sins.
            Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

            Again, the death of the soul is not the end of existence. It becomes the lowest form of existence. Having the knowledge of God, life, love, joy, and peace, all of these things will be lost because of the choice to refuse to accept God’s provision of escape from this lowest state of existence. The word says: “It is not God’s will that any should perish,” but Jesus also said; “Narrow is the way and strait is the gate that leads to life and few there be that find it.”
            Will hell be an existence of fiery torment? Well…, if you get cast into a lake of fire, what would you expect?

    • Faruk
      May 25, 2019 at 12:13 PM
      “JOHN 3:16”
      Are there any other examples? Well, how about John 3:16 ?:
      “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life..(John 3:16)”
      “begotten” has now been unceremoniously removed from the Bible by these most eminent of Bible revisers.Reply
    • Scarlet Fulton
      December 7, 2020 at 7:10 PM
      How do we know for sure that the texts are accurate? I mean, it was still written by people, and people are people.Reply
  • shabroimpex
    December 24, 2017 at 4:22 PM
    Can you separate those 2% non identical written in the bible? If “yes” then give a list of those 2% and if “no” then how can we judge what are right and what are wrong?Reply
    • jay
      January 12, 2018 at 2:35 PM
      The overwhelming majority of the differences are changes in spelling over time and trivial differences in wording that don’t affect the meaning of the text. When we see one manuscripts that has grammatically correct wording and one where, say, there is a word missing that makes the sentence no longer make sense, it’s pretty fair to conclude that a word was accidentally dropped making the sentence incomplete, than to suppose that a word was accidentally added that just happened by chance to make an incomplete sentence suddenly make sense. Almost all of the truly disputed passages are lists or numbers. If one manuscript says “8” and another says “18” (e.g. 2 King 24:8 vs 2 Chronicles 36:9), did the ten get accidentally added or accidentally dropped? If one list says “Adam, Seth. Lamech, and Cain” and another says just “Adam, Lamech, and Cain”, did the additional name get accidentally added or dropped? (Especially if the potentially added name appears elsewhere on the page.) Etc. But none of the disputable passages affects any Jewish or Christian doctrine. They’re minor details. It’s not like we’re not sure whether the original text said adultery is a sin or that adultery is praise-worthy.Reply
      • shabroimpex
        January 12, 2018 at 9:23 PM
        “If one manuscript says “8” and another says “18” (e.g. 2 King 24:8 vs 2 Chronicles 36:9),” in Greek bible this figures are in letters, not in numbers. (2 kings 24:8) “Jehoiachin was EIGHTEEN years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem THREE MONTHS.” when 2 Ch.36:9 says “Jehoiachin was EIGHT years old when he began to reign, and he reigned THREE MONTHS AND TEN DAYS in Jerusalem”. I give you one more example: (2 Kings 8:26), “TWO AND TWENTY YEARS old was Ahaziah when he began to reign;” (2 Ch.22:2) “FORTY AND TWO YEARS old was Ahaziah when he began to reign;”. How many truth will you deny?Reply
        • jay
          January 13, 2018 at 12:38 PM
          I’m sorry, I don’t see your point. What truth am I denying? I’m saying that apparently a scribe made a mistake when copying the text. Are you offering some other explanation for the discrepancy?Reply
          • shabroimpex
            January 13, 2018 at 9:25 PM
            “Are you offering some other explanation for the discrepancy”
            Yes, find out original text, translate your own from it, destroy all different versions and make one for all new accurate well done bible.
          • jay
            January 14, 2018 at 1:07 AM
            When there is some question about the exact text of the original, I think it is more honest and more scholarly to simply acknowledge it. If someone could resolve the issue definitively — perhaps by finding yet older manuscripts or by analysis of the history of the manuscripts we have — then of course we should go with the correct text. But we don’t have that now.
          • shabroimpex
            January 18, 2018 at 11:00 PM
            perhaps by finding yet older manuscripts or by analysis of the history of the manuscripts we have — then of course we should go with the correct text. But we don’t have that now.
            It means in the name of translation we have to read your issued bible with full of mistakes and contentment in it.
          • jay
            January 19, 2018 at 9:33 AM
            Or … just use actual translations, like the New King James or Hohlman, and not paraphrases. You can’t hold people who try to make serious, honest translations responsible for the actions of those who treat the text loosely. The fact that there are cultists in the world who make up their own religion tells us little or nothing about real Christianity.
          • shabroimpex
            January 20, 2018 at 9:44 PM
            It is hard to digest that the bible is words of God because many bible gave foot notes about Mark 16:9-20 that these verses are not original. It means Jeremiah 8:8 is true.
            You recommend for NKJV which is not different than KJV, in both versions 1 John 5:7 is similar but differ than Greek and other translated versions. And for accuracy of KJV what Christian scholar says read this link: “https://bible.org/article/why-i-do-not-think-king-james-bible-best-translation-available-today” and “http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_kjv.htm”
          • jay
            January 21, 2018 at 1:26 AM
            I am not a KJV-only advocate. I readily concede that the KJV has flaws. It is the nature of a translation — whether of the Bible or any other book — that it is difficult if not impossible to perfectly convey the sense of the original and to be readable and readily comprehensible. That’s why when Christians get into debates about very subtle points, they turn back to the original Greek and Hebrew text.But one key sentence in your first link: “It must be emphatically stressed, however, that this does not mean that
            the doctrines contained in those verses have been jeopardized.” Yes, one can quibble over a number of fine points in the text. But no important Christian doctrine rests on just one verse, so if one verse proves problematic, we can switch to several other verses that teach the same thing.
          • shabroimpex
            January 21, 2018 at 11:38 AM
            It is very hard to digest that under God’s protection how many can enter in His revelation? It means we must have to believe Jeremiah 8:8 is also God’s revelation and He informed us that you not obey my commandment what I told in Joshua 1:8 that keep this book on your mouth, in your heart means memorize immediately on inspiration but Christians disobey this commandment and finally scribes done their job.
            You also admitted that no any original scripture present on earth then on debate in which Hebrew and Greek bible Christian scholars turns?
      • shabroimpex
        January 15, 2018 at 10:22 PM
        “The overwhelming majority of the differences are changes in spelling over time and trivial differences in wording that don’t affect the meaning of the text.”
        Give you two (verses) examples from different versions and see are they same in meaning?
        Romans 9:5, Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (KJV)
        Romans 9:5, To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. (ESV)
        Romans 9:5, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. (NLT)
        1 John 5:7, For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (KJV)
        1 John 5:7, For there are three that testify: (ESV)
        Are these in one meaning? True translation? These are not common man made but made by missionaries and approved by churches.Reply
        • jay
          January 15, 2018 at 11:24 PM
          We were talking about discrepancies between surviving manuscripts, not between English translations. That’s an entirely different subject. If you want to take up that subject: There are translations, and there are paraphrases, and there are “translations” made with an axe to grind. In the case of Romans 9:5, the KJV and ESV are simply different translations. KJV translates the Greek word “pateres” as “fathers”, ESV says “patriarchs”. In context these means the same thing: the Jews have the honor of being descended from a long line of great men. Jesus is descended from these men. KJV says “of whom”, which is the literal translation of the Greek “hon”. while ESV says “their race”, there is no word meaning “race” in the original Greek, but they apparently added this rather than “of whom” to make clear whom they were referring to. The meaning of both is the same, and the difference in wording is probably less than you would see if you compared two English translations of, say, a modern French novel. The New Living is not a translation but a paraphrase, and so they added “Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob” as their understanding of who “pateres” was referring to. Personally I think they have veered there from translating to interpretation. While KJV and ESV translated Greek “sarka” literally as “flesh”, NLT said “human nature”. This is fair and likely more comprehensible to modern English readers than the obscure word “flesh” when used in this sense.Reply
          • shabroimpex
            January 18, 2018 at 10:44 PM
            “discrepancies between surviving manuscripts”
            Whom have today original surviving scriptures? If we find it, we can make error less accurate bible one for all churches.
            In the case of Romans 9:5, the KJV and ESV are simply different translations? “KJV said Christ came in flesh who is over all in flesh. and ESV said Christ came into flesh became God over all.” KJV said Jesus is like a man with flesh and bone whom God blessed and ESV said Jesus came into flesh and bone like a man but he is God over all “blessed forever” who gives this blessing and to whom? Is this a small difference?
            You said ” NLT said “human nature”. This is fair and likely more comprehensible to modern English readers than the obscure word “flesh” when used in this sense.” see below said verse in Greek where σάρκα, used in meaning of flesh. But as your own nature covers their fault and instead to correct you proud on their mistake.
            Romans 9:5 in Greek: ὧν οἱ πατέρες, καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ Χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα, ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων Θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας, ἀμήν.
            There is no Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in this verse.
            Stop to argue on wrong and accept truth, it is the way of truth.
            Again I request collect original scriptures and make error-less one bible for all churches.
        • Jerry M
          January 9, 2022 at 2:33 PM
          Stop majoring on minor issues within the translations and list the major changes in doctrine resulting from flawed translations. Such as; the nature of God, the creation narrative, the deity of Christ, the fall of man, the redemption of man, the forgiveness of sin, the ministry of Jesus, the sacrifice of Jesus, His death, resurrection, and Ascension to the right hand of God, the judgment of sin, final judgment, prophesy, evangelism, and God’s calling in our lives! Show me where these doctrines have been compromised!Reply
  • Dave
    January 2, 2018 at 3:27 PM
    And if you take the Greater Isaiah scroll & the Lesser Isaiah scroll, you end up with Isaiah at 99.9?% extant, because they are both virtually identical in text, not size. One was obviously a Temple Scroll & the other a travelling scroll. Which also supports the validity and accuracy of the KJV over all other translations; this alone really irritates a lot of people… wonder why? :<)Reply
  • Bevy
    September 24, 2018 at 11:40 PM
    The extant manuscripts had errors because, like us, copyists were humans too. The Scribes don’t just throw away the manuscripts when they make mistake, they bury them like a dead man. This article talked about the basics of this process. One may search about “geniza” for more understanding.The Scribal process they used was so effective that there few erroneous manuscripts buried. The worn-out original and witnesses to originals and free from errors, because they were few, did not survive (because of climate, worms, or other conditions). As discussed above, the process used by the earlier copyists was lost. And for whatever reason of the interpolation or edits of the newer manuscripts, we do not know. Scholars believe that only the original is inerrant and inspired. The LXX (Greek Torah) is another story. There are efforts to restore the original, especially with the Dead Sea Scrolls. Experts compare the LXX, Masoretic Texts and Dead Sea Scrolls. The process is tedious, but it can be made.Bottom line is, Scripture is God’s word. Those whose faith depended on it, believe. Those who don’t, then don’t, it is not for you.

    Reply

    • Jerry
      September 24, 2019 at 1:24 AM
      The errors the Scribes recognized they made is one point. What about the errors they made in translation? They must be recognized by them to be errors before they can make corrections. It is clear that the Bible translations are not 100% accurate.Reply
  • Bevy
    September 24, 2018 at 11:46 PM
    It is always best, they say, to use different Bible versions. Newer translations refer to different manuscripts (LXX, MT, DDS). Or, study Biblical Hebrew and Greek.Reply
  • Warren McDowell
    November 20, 2020 at 3:30 PM
    Gentlemen, I am not a bible scholar. Can we believe that a text produced by humans is both the human and devine word God uses to speak to His people. I do know “If you don’t know what an item is for, then you don’t know how to use it”. My over 60 years of life has taught me that the Bible is a book about relationships. God’s relatioship with man, man’s relationship to God and lastly man’s relationship with man.The Bible is a collection of stories that tell what God has done to invite his people to have a relationship with Him.Exodus 17:8-9, describs the battle with the Amalekites. In Exodus 17:14, The Lord tells Moses, “Write this on a scroll”. In Jeremiah 36:1-4, The Lord told Jeremiah to: “Take a scroll and write on it all the words I have spoken to you concerning Isreal, Judah and all the other nations”. Jehoiakim took the scroll and burned part of it. In verse 32 Jeremiah again wrote the words that Jehoiakim burned and many similar words were added to them. Does this mean that now two versions exist?

    In asking, “What an item is for” let’s look at Luke 1:1-4 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

    You see, many had attempted to write an account of Jesus’s life. The four accounts we get, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John confirm the events during Jesus life, death and resurrection. Jesus confirms the fulfillment of the Old Testament in Luke 24:44. He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

    In reading the Bible, if we don’t acknowledge what it is for then we will never understand it. If we believe that through this text God speaks to His people, then we will seek to have a relationship with Him.

    Many have tried to discredit the words of the bible. It is constantly under attack and people would rather you Google portions of it under scrutiny than read for yourself. Truth is the bible, being God’s divine word to His people asks you to connect with his son and love Him as much as He has loved you.

    Inspired by Tim Mackie from his “Making of the Bible Project”
    Love always wins, Warren

    Reply

  • DeMico Coleman
    March 9, 2021 at 4:41 PM
    Up to three mistakes on any page could be corrected within thirty days. If more mistakes were found or if mistakes were not fixed within thirty days, the entire manuscript had to be buried. If a single letter was added or a single letter left out, the manuscript had to be fixed or buried…If the scrolls with mistakes were buried then why are we using them to make the Bible of today?Reply

  • James Hunt
    March 1, 2022 at 7:37 AM
    I found this article very interesting. I would greatly appreciate the source of the 9 points listed in article as I am writing a book and one of chapters is about the very early tradition of scribes copying the Jewish scriptures. Many thanks!Reply

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